What da??

[johnb]

Apr 2, 2016 19:03:48 GMT -5 Jack Pauhl said:

Apr 2, 2016 17:12:05 GMT -5 Painting Addictions said:

I have been experiencing bad adhesion also. I have also been witnessing spray stain dust bleeding through PP. It had always blocked alcohol based spray stain and the last three houses I have seen it no longer blocking the stain.

I always know there is a problem when I experience the same problems people in my circle are experiencing. That's the case here. Especially when none of us live anywhere near each other. Goes to show how widespread problems become.

I was out of town a few weeks back and stopped by a Home Depot to pick up a quart of ultra just to try ( nearest Home Depot is 100 miles or so) and while I loved the leveling, adhesion was nowhere near what I thought seeing the posts on here. I thought I got a fluke.

[swordstriper]

I started using Ultra Premium Plus on my last three houses and have had adhesion issues where yellow frog tape made for delicate surfaces pulled off 2 coats of Ultra Premium Plus that had been rolled with a nour 18" aqua glide roller sleeve. Paint had been left to cure for 8-10 days before applying the tape. Spent 2 days patching and touching up to fix. So in my 30 years of painting it is just another paint gone bad. 

[srpainting]

Cashmere is okay it has great things about it Mike that even Jack has mentioned before.

It doesn't measure up in alot of other areas and I would still use plus or ultra over it (maybe test are required). Personally I do like Cashmere but don't find it very durable/as scrubable. That maybe an opinion.

Don't get me wrong though that is still my favorite Sherwin product.


Let's roll the new breakthrough on everything! Haha jk.

[Jack Pauhl]

Best to view this photo from a browser or save it to your phone to zoom. I left the image size large. So, I am sure Behr would appreciate this, how is it possible that problems occur on common building materials? Why is adhesion an issue? Is it the method of testing (industry standards)? It's like I always say, you can't ask just any painter about paint performance. How poor adhesion results ever make it past phase one of testing is incomprehensible to me.

[Jack Pauhl]

Ask me now.

[Mikes Custom Painting]

Apr 2, 2016 18:59:16 GMT -5 Jack Pauhl said:

Apr 2, 2016 16:40:03 GMT -5 Mikes Custom Painting said:

Brian,

Talk about opening a can of Worms!
You've really got your work cut out for You now!

I do appreciate You not withholding the information from us though, however, I'm a little bummed that you didn't let on earlier, since you've seen the decline over the past 5 years!

Having said that, I do recall a recent (within the last 7 months) post where you said you had just used one of the best batches of Ultra ever!
Guess that was short lived.

One of the pit falls of having a system so dependent on a Product.
It's why a lot of Ad Campaigns refuse to get too involved with a certain spokes person or character. The representatives can become a Monster, demanding more and more until the company can no longer feed the beast.

The exceptions would be: Flo from the Progressives ads, the Geico lizard, and the Noam from Travelocity.

Just a little tid bit from a guy who has done a fair amount of voice work in the industry.
just for fun, heres a link for a Movie trailer I did the V/O for:
Just for clarification, I'm not on Camera, I'm the Announcer guy.

I'm not following you on this one. Did you post the right video? I'm not a spokesperson for any company. I've never received a dime for talking about anything for any company. I do know companies pay people to say certain things about their products, but that path often crosses with integrity, deceit and lies. I guess I'll need to see more evidence that marketing in this industry isn't bullshit. I'm convinced it is, but I think that is part ignorance and part manipulation. I'm always for creating something useful and then selling its usefulness instead of making crap up.

 Brian,

I was going from one thought to another. Your whole system was dependent on the Paint, the roller, the roller covers etc. The problem obviously, is that the Paint portion of your system has let You down.

I then drew a coparison of another industry relying heavily on something - in this case, a spokes person. And then to validate My comment, I added that I knew from experience how the Ad industry works because I am a part of that Industry. The Video is an Example of My work. That's My voice on the Movie Trailer. Remember, Painting is a relatively new gig for Me. I was a Radio personality for many years as well as a voice talent and Studio owner.  

It had nothing to do with You being paid by Behr. As I've said in the past, that makes no sense at all, since you have trashed one of the Behr products (Marquee). And if that wasn't enough to convince people that you weren't a paid rep for Behr, You have now brought to light some more short comings from the company; this time with your favorite product. 

[Jack Pauhl]

Apr 2, 2016 19:49:31 GMT -5 Mikes Custom Painting said:

Apr 2, 2016 18:59:16 GMT -5 Jack Pauhl said:

I'm not following you on this one. Did you post the right video? I'm not a spokesperson for any company. I've never received a dime for talking about anything for any company. I do know companies pay people to say certain things about their products, but that path often crosses with integrity, deceit and lies. I guess I'll need to see more evidence that marketing in this industry isn't bullshit. I'm convinced it is, but I think that is part ignorance and part manipulation. I'm always for creating something useful and then selling its usefulness instead of making crap up.

 Brian,

I was going from one thought to another. Your whole system was dependent on the Paint, the roller, the roller covers etc. The problem obviously, is that the Paint portion of your system has let You down.

I then drew a coparison of another industry relying heavily on something - in this case, a spokes person. And then to validate My comment, I added that I knew from experience how the Ad industry works because I am a part of that Industry. The Video is an Example of My work. That's My voice on the Movie Trailer. Remember, Painting is a relatively new gig for Me. I was a Radio personality for many years as well as a voice talent and Studio owner.  

It had nothing to do with You being paid by Behr. As I've said in the past, that makes no sense at all, since you have trashed one of the Behr products (Marquee). And if that wasn't enough to convince people that you weren't a paid rep for Behr, You have now brought to light some more short comings from the company; this time with your favorite product. 

Ah.. gotcha. Well I look at it this way. If Behr doesn't want to get my input on product development then they shouldn't be surprised when I have something negative to say. That is all avoidable. When the product hits the store shelves, its too late.

[Jack Pauhl]

More thought... if you align Good, Better and Best to Premium Plus, Ultra and Marquee (as it should be)... I guess they failed to meet "good" on their lineup at this point. Good paint sticks.

[Mikes Custom Painting]

Apr 2, 2016 19:40:52 GMT -5 Jack Pauhl said:

Best to view this photo from a browser or save it to your phone to zoom. I left the image size large. So, I am sure Behr would appreciate this, how is it possible that problems occur on common building materials? Why is adhesion an issue? Is it the method of testing (industry standards)? It's like I always say, you can't ask just any painter about paint performance. How poor adhesion results ever make it past phase one of testing is incomprehensible to me.

I would throw this right back in their face and say, "prove it"!

[Mikes Custom Painting]

Apr 2, 2016 19:51:51 GMT -5 Jack Pauhl said:

Apr 2, 2016 19:49:31 GMT -5 Mikes Custom Painting said:

 Brian,

I was going from one thought to another. Your whole system was dependent on the Paint, the roller, the roller covers etc. The problem obviously, is that the Paint portion of your system has let You down.

I then drew a coparison of another industry relying heavily on something - in this case, a spokes person. And then to validate My comment, I added that I knew from experience how the Ad industry works because I am a part of that Industry. The Video is an Example of My work. That's My voice on the Movie Trailer. Remember, Painting is a relatively new gig for Me. I was a Radio personality for many years as well as a voice talent and Studio owner.  

It had nothing to do with You being paid by Behr. As I've said in the past, that makes no sense at all, since you have trashed one of the Behr products (Marquee). And if that wasn't enough to convince people that you weren't a paid rep for Behr, You have now brought to light some more short comings from the company; this time with your favorite product. 

Ah.. gotcha. Well I look at it this way. If Behr doesn't want to get my input on product development then they shouldn't be surprised when I have something negative to say. That is all avoidable. When the product hits the store shelves, its too late.

Agree totally!

[Mikes Custom Painting]

Apr 2, 2016 19:29:56 GMT -5 srpainting said:

Cashmere is okay it has great things about it Mike that even Jack has mentioned before.

It doesn't measure up in alot of other areas and I would still use plus or ultra over it (maybe test are required). Personally I do like Cashmere but don't find it very durable/as scrubable. That maybe an opinion.

Don't get me wrong though that is still my favorite Sherwin product.


Let's roll the new breakthrough on everything! Haha jk.

Thanks for the input Santiago! I haven't used many of SW's products accept for the Duration.
I wan't crazy about their Showcase +   Nothing plus about it really!

[Mikes Custom Painting]

Apr 2, 2016 19:24:42 GMT -5 swordstriper said:

I started using Ultra Premium Plus on my last three houses and have had adhesion issues where yellow frog tape made for delicate surfaces pulled off 2 coats of Ultra Premium Plus that had been rolled with a nour 18" aqua glide roller sleeve. Paint had been left to cure for 8-10 days before applying the tape. Spent 2 days patching and touching up to fix. So in my 30 years of painting it is just another paint gone bad. 

Yikes! The bad testimonies are pouring out like what you'd see at a  Bill Clinton Intern Convention 

[Mikes Custom Painting]

Apr 2, 2016 19:07:06 GMT -5 johnb said:

Apr 2, 2016 19:03:48 GMT -5 Jack Pauhl said:

I always know there is a problem when I experience the same problems people in my circle are experiencing. That's the case here. Especially when none of us live anywhere near each other. Goes to show how widespread problems become.

I was out of town a few weeks back and stopped by a Home Depot to pick up a quart of ultra just to try ( nearest Home Depot is 100 miles or so) and while I loved the leveling, adhesion was nowhere near what I thought seeing the posts on here. I thought I got a fluke.

You, Johnny Boy, are but another speed-bump on the Paint Industriy's Highway of life!

[Jack Pauhl]

Apr 2, 2016 14:09:18 GMT -5 Mikes Custom Painting said:

Apr 2, 2016 13:42:29 GMT -5 Jack Pauhl said:

Behr was never excellent, however, Premium Plus and Ultra outperformed countless products. For the longest time I was unable to tell the two products apart. I always said I would fail the blind test. This conversation goes back to what I've been preaching all along; standards are so low that, in the scope of available products, Behr was the first to reach the 'Good' line on the chart. Behr met the basic requirements for a successful paint job in the least amount of time. The products were effectively efficient and that was a very rare find in our industry. So, what happens when we strip all that away? What are we left with? How is Behr different than other products?

When Behr first hit the shelves at the Depot, adhesion was insane. It stuck to everything and it was very difficult to get off your hands and tools and anything else you might not want paint on. I first started seeing a decline with adhesion 5 years ago and that decline never really stopped or leveled out. My last house with Behr was a mess and I did my best to fix it but the damage is done. Nothing I can do now would make Behr stick any better. The paint I applied is now the weakest link.

I'm going to Call Behr and tell them a bunch of us will be dropping their product. Maybe we would list approximately how much of the Behr we use on a Monthly basis and I could tabulate that and inform them that just from our group alone, they would be losing X amount of product sales a Year, not to mention all the bad PR.

I wouldn't bother. Sales numbers speak louder. That photo I posted of "Your Business: Our Priority" is mumbo jumbo. That kind of talk means nothing to me; I'm all about action. I was invited to that event but I had way too much on my plate to attend. Besides, that event was more of a 'show and tell' and I'm not interested in that kind of nonsense. I stay pretty focused on things that make my job easier and tend to shy away wasting time on anything else.

[Jack Pauhl]

From the Emerald review April 2013. Stain blocking, excellent leveling, great hide, self priming, etc., is useless if the paint doesn't stick. The paint becomes a cosmetic product where its function is lost in development.